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Thread: Holocron continuity database questions



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Pabawan


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Registered: 12/15/99
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 13, 2005 9:19 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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you don't represent LFL, but Licensing that, according to him, can't make decisions regarding the canon

... and here I thought we were one big company. ;)

ph
@Sikon

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Registered: 07/25/04
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 13, 2005 8:33 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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One more question. I assumed that KOTOR I and II are both C-canon, but one person said KOTOR I is G-canon because Lucas mentioned it somewhere. Is it true that the first game has a higher canonicity level?
demolition18

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Registered: 10/23/04
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 13, 2005 4:53 AM   in response to: jarjarsmeagol in response to: jarjarsmeagol
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When I was writing Star Wars fan fiction movie related someone else told me that I need to research through the EU.

He says that the EU is not some parallel universe like we think. George Lucas has stated certain things. George Lucas authorized the expanded universe and doesn't give the authors free reign over what happens to his characters. George Lucas asks the authors to fill in what happens in between the movies and employs the them on writing the novels. George Lucas even does explaining.
jSarek


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 13, 2005 4:32 AM   in response to: jarjarsmeagol in response to: jarjarsmeagol
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jarjarsmeagol:

In Star Wars Episode I Journal: Anakin Skywalker, Todd Strasser spells the planet, on which the angels Anakin talks to Padme about in TPM come from, Iego (that's an i, not an L). However, in Labyrinth of Evil, James Luceno spells it Viago, the "V" being silent I suppose. Out of curiousity, which spelling is considered canon?

It's also spelled Iego in Geonosis and the Outer Rim Worlds, which devotes an entire section of the book to the planet (a portion of which you can read here). Given such prominent usage, I imagine it's an error in LoE.
Darth Talas


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 13, 2005 2:31 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Oh look, Mr. Chee is being waylaid by disenfranchised Trekkie fanboys that decided Lucasfilm's actual canon-EU policy wasn't good enough, so they invented their own. Yes yes, we know. You're the only ones who know what Lucas ACTUALLY thinks of the EU. Even after Mr. Chee was kind enough to show you the error of your ways.
Grand Moff Magn...


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Registered: 12/26/99
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 12, 2005 11:49 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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My understanding of the canon is that the EU is bound by the movies (and naturally not vice versa), that it's also bound by other directives (in the way you've described) and that the canon policy is inclusive and includes elements from all the various divisions involved in the franchise: LFL (the movies), LL (novels, comics etc.) and LA (story elements from videogames).
I'm picky when it comes to the EU. I don't read the comics (they're not as easy to come by here in Sweden either) and I prefer some authors before others, but I still recognize the comics and the novels by other authors to be part of the official story of SW which is something that only you people can decide on. I don't dismiss the entire EU just because I happen to disagree with some of the stories or individual details in the movie canon reference works. I apologize if I'm a little longwinded, but it would interesting to get these issues cleared up.
Grand Moff Magn...


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 12, 2005 11:34 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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While we have Tasty here, perhaps he could clear something up for us. In another thread on this forum, Ackbar's Trap told me the following a few days ago:
"1. The EU's continuity policy claims to follow the movies, but you can't claim it's some sort of overall continuity. That's absurd."
On the page on his site that he linked to, he says that the continuity as it's understood by some, that the movies+the EU forms a single continuity is incorrect and with a gold box instead tries to show that the EU is more or less glorified fanfiction and what you mean with overall continuity is irrelevant as you don't represent LFL, but Licensing that, according to him, can't make decisions regarding the canon (to quote a section: "One, known informally as the 'canon policy', is maintained by Lucas and Lucasfilm, Ltd. The other, termed the "official continuity policy", is maintained by Lucas Licensing." Cont.
Grand Moff Magn...


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 12, 2005 10:59 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Ackbar's Trap, George Lucas has clearly indicated what he means with the "two worlds". Since you're aware of the sources, I'll only mention them briefly. In the Cinescape interview, GL said that his world is "a select period of time" that the EU doesn't intrude upon, but that the EU does "intrude in between the movies". From the Empire magazine interview the sentiment was that the upcoming television series as well as the novels only are parallel in the sense that he's not the one making them. He also said that: the TV series "It's not about Darth Vader or the saga, it just takes place in that world. It's like the spin-off novels. I'm not doing it, other people are doing it". GL has also shown at least some interest in the EU. Tom Veitch said in an interview that GL wanted to have input on the ancient history of the Jedi, why would he want to have that (in such a trivial matter) if your interpretation of "parallel universes" is correct?
jarjarsmeagol


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 12, 2005 7:46 PM   in response to: demolition18 in response to: demolition18
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Tasty Taste:

In Star Wars Episode I Journal: Anakin Skywalker, Todd Strasser spells the planet, on which the angels Anakin talks to Padme about in TPM come from, Iego (that's an i, not an L). However, in Labyrinth of Evil, James Luceno spells it Viago, the "V" being silent I suppose. Out of curiousity, which spelling is considered canon?
demolition18

Posts: 372
Registered: 10/23/04
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 12, 2005 4:47 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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I think that fan fiction is non canon. I knew that secondary canon is what's not so accurate.

I think that the EU contriadicts with the movies because it's not accurate enough to George Lucas's vision of Star Wars.
Leland Y Chee


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 12, 2005 10:39 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Are game mechanics (video games or rpg) canon? For example, does a rpg damage rating like "7d" mean anything? If a C-canon source (like a novel or reference book) contradicts what the game mechanics say, will the book win out?

Game mechanics are designed to try to match continuity to fit the purposes of the game for which they were created. They can serve to provide a scale from which to compare how one character or piece of technology stacks up against another. Because RPGs use dice, there is always the element of random chance involved, which isn't quite applicable to a book.

But stats themselves aren't created randomly; they are based on what is already known. As such, we can always look to them as a basis when writing books. I often look to RPG stats to see for example, what type of Force powers a character may have. Or if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle, we can look to RPG stats for a basis of comparison.

Conversely, I think it would be a determinent if books were artificially limited by game stats. So I would agree that a book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction.
Darth-Jango

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Registered: 12/02/02
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 11, 2005 10:07 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Tasty Taste:

The question I'm about to ask is silly, and the answer probably goes without saying. It was already asked on page 12 of this thread, but the only people who answered it were a bunch of regular posters. I want to know your "official" answer. Someone I know won't believe it any other way.

Are game mechanics (video games or rpg) canon? For example, does a rpg damage rating like "7d" mean anything? If a C-canon source (like a novel or reference book) contradicts what the game mechanics say, will the book win out?

Silly, I know. But like I said, the person I'm discussing this with won't believe it unless he hears it from you.
Ackbar's Trap


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 9, 2005 9:21 PM   in response to: Jeff Ferguson in response to: Jeff Ferguson
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You're suggesting a contradiction, specifically that Lucas must not mean what he says because he uses a few ideas from the EU. However, this is a false dilemma . . . you're suggesting a contradiction where none exists: Lucas would be perfectly at liberty to simultaneously use the few EU ideas he uses while also relegating the EU to a parallel universe.

Of course, at this point in the conversation we're delving more toward the area of this thread than perhaps we should in a thread on the Holocron.
Jeff Ferguson

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 9, 2005 4:42 PM   in response to: Ackbar's Trap in response to: Ackbar's Trap
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Keep in mind that George wanted to use Quinlan Vos in Episode III, and even featured a mention of him by Obi-Wan. This suggests that he does consider the EU to be canon, at least to a certain extent.
Ackbar's Trap


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 8, 2005 1:15 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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listen to GL's comments about
Boba Fett on the Return of the Jedi DVD
commentary.

Well, Lucas referred to it as "Boba Fett's death", which goes with his 1997 statement (video here) that Boba was "killed", and that although he was killed he's still written about in the EU. This also conforms with Sansweet's 2002 answer that George considers Boba to have died in RotJ.

But you're right in that he says most people don't think Boba died, and though he considered changing that fact he decided "it doesn't quite fit, in the end".
Ackbar's Trap


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 8, 2005 1:14 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Starlog #337 was from just a few months ago, and it goes with other quotes he's made over the years. A direct quote with scans can be found here. You might also find Sue's response to a report of that quote interesting. It's here.

True, Lucas isn't giving us a formalized, rigid canon policy with such statements, but many would argue that they can't be dismissed because of that. He's giving a very clear position about what is or is not part of the same continuity as the films. It's interesting to consider.
mike4ty4

Posts: 13
Registered: 11/16/05
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 8, 2005 11:33 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Well, I guess the thing is, really, only George knows what was truly said in that mag.And as you said, since anyone could have their own canon policy, and that there's no big overruling "canon policy" that applies everywhere, George Lucas could exclude the EU from his canon if he wants.

But thanks for the answers anyway.
Leland Y Chee


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Registered: 05/05/00
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 8, 2005 10:52 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Against I have to say that there's no policy beyond the scope of Licensing's Holocron.

To address the Starlog quote (when was this quote taken from, anyway?), listen to GL's comments about Boba Fett on the Return of the Jedi DVD commentary. He considered it a misstep that more of an event wasn't made of Fett's defeat in light of his role in the prequels. He even considered adding an extra shot where Boba Fett crawls out of the Sarlacc since "most people don't believe he died anyway."
Ackbar's Trap


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Registered: 10/29/02
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 8, 2005 10:52 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Well, the "in George's head" idea would refer more to the content of the canon than any general belief on what canon is. Or, to put it in another way, it talks about the canon as opposed to canon.

To be sure, the Fett example kind of muddies the waters by referring to a specific bit of content, but I brought it up simply as a demonstration of Lucas's parallel universe belief.

Sorry if I was confusing. People use canon, continuity, and even content in different ways on this topic, so it's somewhat difficult to avoid accidental equivocation.
mike4ty4

Posts: 13
Registered: 11/16/05
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 7, 2005 6:36 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Tasty Taste,

We all know that the EUs are bound to the films and Lucas material -- one of Sue Rostoni's quotes said that there was a continuity decision made to ensure that the EUs would be kept consistent with Lucas' films and each other, so as not to undermine Lucas' vision and ensure product quality. But this is not what I'm after. What I'm after is this: is the Expanded Universe material considered "Canon" by George Lucas and LucasFilm Ltd Proper? By a "Canon Policy" I mean what is/is not considered part of the Star Wars continuity, perhaps a "Continuity Policy" would be a better term. What is LucasFilm Ltd. Proper and George Lucas' positions on what constitutes the Star Wars continuity/timeline? George Lucas in Starlog seemed to imply that the EU was not considered by him, and perhaps others (the "we" statement) (Lucasfilm?), to be part of the SW continuity ("two universes").

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