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Thread: Holocron continuity database questions



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poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:05 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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And finally, they changed their stances and famously stated the canon hierarchy levels, regarding the holocron database. Even then, G-level canon remained "gospel" above everything else. There is no such thing as a case by case basis. There is G-level, there is everything else.

Credits to canonwars.com for archiving the quotes. So, while George Lucas stated a long time ago that there was his universe, and the EU which is essentially a parallel universe (which has nothing to do with his universe), and stated the very same thing again in a recent interview, those in charge of the EU have been changing their stances bit by bit.

I wonder how those who complain about Lucas supposedly contradicting himself regarding a lot of things (a myth), would feel about those in charge of the EU doing the same :)

So the question is, how exactly can there be a case by case basis, when the EU material's validity is determined by whether it does or does not contradict G-level canon?
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:04 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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"Which brings us to the often-asked question: Just what is Star Wars canon, and what is not? The one sure answer: The Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition -- the three films themselves as executive-produced, and in the case of Star Wars written and directed, by George Lucas, are canon. Coming in a close second we have the authorised adaptations of the three films: the novels, radio dramas, and comics. After that, almost everything falls into a category of "quasi-canon." - Stated by Steve Sansweet in 1996.

"Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas's Star Wars saga of films and screenplays." - Stated by Sue Rostoni in 2001.

So it is explicitly said that the goal is to make sure that the EU material do not conflict, or undermine with G-level canon.
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:04 AM   in response to: AdmirableAckbar in response to: AdmirableAckbar
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The "case by case basis" regarding the possibility of C-level canon overtaking G-level canon is a complete contradiction of statements made earlier regarding canon.

"'Gospel', or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history -- with many off-shoots, variations and tangents -- like any other well-developed mythology." - Stated by Sue Rostoni in 1994.

So we have G-level canon which is gospel. Everything else falls below, not just some cases.
AdmirableAckbar


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 8:09 AM   in response to: Lord Hydronium in response to: Lord Hydronium
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Tasty:

Nomi Sunrider is labeled the "Head" of the Jedi Order in the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook. Does this mean she was the Grand Master at the time, or did she hold some sort of other, less formal position?

Thanks in advance for any answers.
Lord Hydronium


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Registered: 12/25/03
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 21, 2008 2:10 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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In the intro to Rebel Assault, there's a video montage with a voiceover that mirrors what's going on in the video; for example, when it starts talking about Darth Vader, it shows Vader, etc. At one point it mentions the first victory of the Rebellion (since it's copying the ANH opening crawl verbatim I'm assuming it means the Battle of Toprawa) while showing a space battle. Can we assume this is the Toprawa battle we're seeing?
Sompeetalay


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 20, 2008 12:57 AM   in response to: ulic_g99 in response to: ulic_g99
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But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story.
< Well ... finally at the end do you understand :) Lucasfilm Licensing is not the same as Lucasfilm. As much as we all love Lucasfilm Licensing, you do understand why the post 'RotJ'-EU has grown to such proportions? No matter how terrible these books are written, there are always people who will buy them. There can even be five parts about Han Solo's retirement party and still people will buy that without ever asking themselves the question 'what is Star Wars?'.
Darth NTM


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 18, 2008 10:18 PM   in response to: ulic_g99 in response to: ulic_g99
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This question continually comes up, and the answer is always the same.
ulic_g99


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 18, 2008 1:23 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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(Cont...)

I was wondering how what he says above ties in with the Holocron and Star Wars canon policy; when Mr. Lucas talks about three worlds (his world that he made up, the licensing world and the fans' world), is he referring to the films (his world), the EU (the licensing world) and the fans own preferences (the fans' world), or is he referring to whole continuities, i.e. the Films Only continuity (his world), the Films+EU continuity (the licensing world) and again the fans' own preferences (the fans' world)?
ulic_g99


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 18, 2008 1:21 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Hi Tasty, I've got a slightly convoluted question about the Holocron, canon policy and George Lucas. In a recent interview, Mr. Lucas was asked the following question:

"Do you think you'd have other people continue the Star Wars saga past Episode VI or turn some of the other material into films?"

To which he replied:

"But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books. But there's three worlds: There's my world that I made up, there's the licensing world that's the books, the comics, all that kind of stuff, the games, which is their world, and then there's the fans' world, which is also very rich in imagination, but they don't always mesh. All I'm in charge of is my world. I can't be in charge of those other people's world, because I can't keep up with it."
jSarek


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 14, 2008 1:12 AM   in response to: Jeff Ferguson in response to: Jeff Ferguson
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Jeff Ferguson:

I can think of a couple of instances of G-canon being trumped --- in Episode II, Lucas establishes that the Republic has only existed for a thousand years. The EU then says "Well, here's what Palpatine really meant..."

Well, this was a case of inconsistencies in G-canon - Obi-Wan says the Jedi guarded peace and justice in the Old Republic for a thousand generations in Ep. IV.

I also think it highly probable that Lucas intended for Anakin to be C-3PO's original, original maker, but the EU established that he rebuilt a discarded Threepio from the trash.

Again, an inconsistency in G-canon - there's no shortage of nearly identical 3PO units walking around in the movies, so Anakin couldn't have been working completely from scratch.
Jeff Ferguson

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 10:06 PM   in response to: Sompeetalay in response to: Sompeetalay
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I can think of a couple of instances of G-canon being trumped --- in Episode II, Lucas establishes that the Republic has only existed for a thousand years. The EU then says "Well, here's what Palpatine really meant..."

I also think it highly probable that Lucas intended for Anakin to be C-3PO's original, original maker, but the EU established that he rebuilt a discarded Threepio from the trash.
Sompeetalay


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 13, 2008 8:34 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Is R4-D6 (http://w ww.rebelscum.com/TF2008/Hasbro/presentation/image13.asp), one the buildable Droids from Hasbro, the Arfour unit seen in the hangar in the Great Massassi Temple on Yavin 4?
jSarek


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 7:39 PM   in response to: DarthMRN in response to: DarthMRN
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DarthMRN:

*No? I know Tasty has claimed so somewhere. Can you think of an example where it wasn't?

EDIT: Come to think of it, I also remember reading somewhere that the case-by-case applies regardless of source. Hmm. We'll go with that one then.*

Here is where Tasty revealed that, while important, G-canon doesn't always trump and contradictions are always dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

However, if you can think of an example of G being refused, I'd still like to know.

Tasty mentions Boba Fett's survival and recruited stormtroopers here.
DarthMRN


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 5:59 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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Even G-canon isn't an automatic trump card.

No? I know Tasty has claimed so somewhere. Can you think of an example where it wasn't?

EDIT: Come to think of it, I also remember reading somewhere that the case-by-case applies regardless of source. Hmm. We'll go with that one then.

However, if you can think of an example of G being refused, I'd still like to know.
jSarek


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 5:34 PM   in response to: DarthMRN in response to: DarthMRN
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Agreed, but we have G-canon setting a precedent. It's a perfectly good possibility.

Even G-canon isn't an automatic trump card.

There was a question mark behind my uppermost sentence, if you didn't notice.

I did, but I read it rhetorically, rather than literally. My mistake.
DarthMRN


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 5:23 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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Agreed, but we have G-canon setting a precedent. It's a perfectly good possibility.

There was a question mark behind my uppermost sentence, if you didn't notice.
jSarek


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 4:50 PM   in response to: DarthMRN in response to: DarthMRN
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While T-canon will get priority in conflicts, everything is handled on a case-by-case basis. There is no trumping.
DarthMRN


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 5:30 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Wow! So this new series will automatically trump any work save the movies if a continuity conflict arises?

...scary...

I'm suddenly that much more happy to know the creators are continuity-minded, and that you are spending so much time with the stuff.
Leland Y Chee


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 11, 2008 1:00 AM   in response to: johnboy1600 in response to: johnboy1600
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Undoubtedly T-level canon would be above C-level, primarily because of George Lucas's increased involvement. The secondary reason is that the the potential audience for the theatrical release and television run is likely to be many times greater than the rest of the EU combined.
johnboy1600

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 3:13 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Mr. Chee, I understand you're a busy man, so please answer this in your own time. You mentioned at some point back that a new level in the canon hierarchy, T-Level, would be created to accommodate the various TV shows and such. Have you decided yet where that level is going to fall? I suppose it's a given that G-Level will trump it, but will it trump C-Level, or will it fall between C-Level and S-Level? Thanks in advance for any reply you may give!

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