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Thread: Holocron continuity database questions



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DarthMRN


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Apr 6, 2008 12:20 AM   in response to: Darth NTM in response to: Darth NTM
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That vouches for content produced after what I've learned was the cutoff point of 1991-92, but not previous content. WEG went into a second edition around that time, after all.

Not to mention how the prequels have messed with some of the backstory presented even in the second edition. President of the Senate turned Emperor who was rendered inefficient as members of the government took de facto control of the Empire, anyone?

I think it is a perfectly valid question to ask.
Darth NTM


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Apr 5, 2008 7:48 PM   in response to: DarthMRN in response to: DarthMRN
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WEG is and always has been as canon as any other EU. When Zahn wrote the Thrawn trilogy he was specifically instructed to keep in continuity with the WEG sourcebooks.

Zahn + WEG = Start of "Modern" EU (ie, its when they started getting serious about keeping everything together)
DarthMRN


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Apr 5, 2008 6:04 AM   in response to: Sompeetalay in response to: Sompeetalay
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Tasty, a question:

How does the Holocron treat WEG Roleplaying sourcebooks? Have they been rendered S-canon as a result of Wizards taking over, or are those books that were released after contunity testing began considered C?

If the latter, is it safe to assume that the D20 books take precedent over the D6 ones in case of a contradiction? Yes, I know, case by case. But as a general assumption?
Sompeetalay


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Apr 2, 2008 5:26 AM   in response to: PiccoloKenobi in response to: PiccoloKenobi
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http://starwa rs.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Podracingcrowd_AA.JPG

On this picture, are the characters that wear the same outfit as Aehrrley Rue and Rum Sleg actually Rue and Sleg or are they characters that wear exactly the same outfit?
PiccoloKenobi


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 28, 2008 11:42 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Hello Tasty!

Is it possible that the Jedi chef from Jedi vs. Sith is the same person as Bordon from +Rule of Two+?
Sompeetalay


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 25, 2008 4:00 PM   in response to: HHL91 in response to: HHL91
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George will do and say many things. Though he's the top boss, we don't care what he says, because what we say is the truth and what he is saying is pure nonsense, though we've been shifting our own situation on the matter throughout the years
< True ! I never understood why George Lucas has been (and still is) ignored in the matter of EU. The WEG Sourcebooks of the Zahn Trilogy clearly states that these stories are not part of Lucas' vision but just of the author who wrote these books.

Another question then: Where can we see Mosep Binneed in the movies? Is he in the streets of Mos Eisley, though according to decipher's CCG that should be Tawss Khaa ...
HHL91


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 25, 2008 11:46 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Question, is there any intentions of ret-conning Carnor Jax as a Shadow Guard? First, Jax's garb is eerily similar to that of the pics of the Shadow Guard I've seen (except his use of a metal bladed pike instead of a lightsaber bladed pike). Also, it is said that Jax was Lumiya's apprentice and an aspiring Sith Lord. To be such, he would have to have a significant degree of force potency. From my very early understanding of what the Shadow Guards are, they are more force sensitive members of the royal guard, used as a more elite force (very similar to the Soveirgn Protectors of the Dark Empire era, which Jax was a major part of). Taking all of this into accout, I think Jax's ascension to the (self proclaimed) role of Dark Lord, and his selection as Lumiya's apprentice, almost requires that he be identified as a member of this more elite, force sensitive group. It increases the believability of his character and the heights he eventually achieved
HHL91


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 25, 2008 11:42 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Question, is there any intentions of ret-conning Carnor Jax as a Shadow Guard? First, Jax's garb is eerily similar to that of the pics of the Shadow Guard I've seen (except his use of a metal bladed pike instead of a lightsaber bladed pike). Also, it is said that Jax was Lumiya's apprentice and an aspiring Sith Lord. To be such, he would have to have a significant degree of force potency. From my very early understanding of what the Shadow Guards are, they are more force sensitive members of the royal guard, used as a more elite force (very similar to the Soveirgn Protectors of the Dark Empire era, which Jax was a major part of). Taking all of this into accout, I think Jax's ascension to the (self proclaimed) role of Dark Lord, and his selection as Lumiya's apprentice, almost requires that he be identified as a member of this more elite, force sensitive group. It increases the believability of his character and the heights he eventually achieved
DarthMRN


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 24, 2008 2:57 PM   in response to: Master Ki-Aaron... in response to: Master Ki-Aaron...
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Since GL has taken the 'alternate universe' stance, I'm sure he does not care what Licencing does to continuity as long as the EU brings in the bucks. I've identified four different kinds of fans in regard to continuity and canon, and I see no reason why GL would care about setting the record straight with any of them.

The sheer fact that Leland was allowed free reins with continuity -basically giving him the power to define gospel as long as certain guidelines were followed- proves just how much GL cares. We are not exactly talking micro-management here. If anything, the current state of canon seems to be a fan-service in terms of coherence between myriad sources, no matter what steps are required to make this happen, rather than the God-given truth about SW. The latter can be found in GL interviews I believe.
Master Ki-Aaron...


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 23, 2008 10:48 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Mr. Chee, do we know if the Organas and/or the Larses know that Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker?
Rancor_Orga

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Registered: 03/30/05
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 23, 2008 10:26 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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No, they must give him permission to kill off a character.
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:25 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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From the flow of things, the next step seems to be stating that G-level and C-level are equal, and the final step being that C-level is above G-level (or perhaps erasing G-level canon from canon history) ;) After all, to Lucas, the EU was never canon to begin with, so even if he is informed of what's going on in the EU world, maybe anything can be done without invoking his wrath.

Though I'd love to see is reaction if Luke is suddenly killed off, and someone asks GL "What are your comments on Luke Skywalker's death?" Would he say "Nope, never happened" or would he say "What did you say? Heads will roll!" :)
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:18 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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The final mystery is, does GL actually know that the EU stance has been changing like that? From the beginning stance being that the only canon was movies and anything to do with the movies, to the G-level and C-level hierarchy where C-level material had to strictly follow the rule of not contradicting G-level material, to now the case by case basis? From what he's been saying (from the interviews) it sure doesn't seem to be the case :)
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:11 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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When and why did things change from C-canon material not being allowed to contradict G-level canon? Also when did the main purpose of those in charge of the EU change from making sure that the EU does not conflict with or undermine G-level canon, to handling such things on a case by case basis (which is just a different way of saying the very opposite of the earlier statement)?

To me all this seems like it's another way of saying "George will do and say many things. Though he's the top boss, we don't care what he says, because what we say is the truth and what he is saying is pure nonsense, though we've been shifting our own situation on the matter throughout the years."
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:11 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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I believe it's a politically correct way of saying "In the beginning of the EU, no EU was canon. Then we changed our position so that there will be G-level canon and C-level canon, and our goal is to make sure that the EU material does not contradict G-level canon. Then we changed our position again so that "some" C-level canon may override G-level canon depending on how we feel about it.," while GL never changed the stance that there is gospel (his world) and there is an alternate universe (EU).

Saying that contradictions are handled by a case by case basis, where some C-level canon may stand over G-level canon, is essentially the same as completely contradicting all the other statements made regarding canon over the years, and finally saying that "no, G-level canon is not gospel anymore. We want to say that everything is canon, though the top boss says the exact opposite, and has been saying the exact opposite all this time."
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:05 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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And finally, they changed their stances and famously stated the canon hierarchy levels, regarding the holocron database. Even then, G-level canon remained "gospel" above everything else. There is no such thing as a case by case basis. There is G-level, there is everything else.

Credits to canonwars.com for archiving the quotes. So, while George Lucas stated a long time ago that there was his universe, and the EU which is essentially a parallel universe (which has nothing to do with his universe), and stated the very same thing again in a recent interview, those in charge of the EU have been changing their stances bit by bit.

I wonder how those who complain about Lucas supposedly contradicting himself regarding a lot of things (a myth), would feel about those in charge of the EU doing the same :)

So the question is, how exactly can there be a case by case basis, when the EU material's validity is determined by whether it does or does not contradict G-level canon?
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:04 AM   in response to: poverello - §RIP§ in response to: poverello - §RIP§
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"Which brings us to the often-asked question: Just what is Star Wars canon, and what is not? The one sure answer: The Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition -- the three films themselves as executive-produced, and in the case of Star Wars written and directed, by George Lucas, are canon. Coming in a close second we have the authorised adaptations of the three films: the novels, radio dramas, and comics. After that, almost everything falls into a category of "quasi-canon." - Stated by Steve Sansweet in 1996.

"Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas's Star Wars saga of films and screenplays." - Stated by Sue Rostoni in 2001.

So it is explicitly said that the goal is to make sure that the EU material do not conflict, or undermine with G-level canon.
poverello - §RIP§

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:04 AM   in response to: AdmirableAckbar in response to: AdmirableAckbar
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The "case by case basis" regarding the possibility of C-level canon overtaking G-level canon is a complete contradiction of statements made earlier regarding canon.

"'Gospel', or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelisations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history -- with many off-shoots, variations and tangents -- like any other well-developed mythology." - Stated by Sue Rostoni in 1994.

So we have G-level canon which is gospel. Everything else falls below, not just some cases.
AdmirableAckbar


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 22, 2008 8:09 AM   in response to: Lord Hydronium in response to: Lord Hydronium
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Tasty:

Nomi Sunrider is labeled the "Head" of the Jedi Order in the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook. Does this mean she was the Grand Master at the time, or did she hold some sort of other, less formal position?

Thanks in advance for any answers.
Lord Hydronium


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Registered: 12/25/03
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Mar 21, 2008 2:10 PM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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In the intro to Rebel Assault, there's a video montage with a voiceover that mirrors what's going on in the video; for example, when it starts talking about Darth Vader, it shows Vader, etc. At one point it mentions the first victory of the Rebellion (since it's copying the ANH opening crawl verbatim I'm assuming it means the Battle of Toprawa) while showing a space battle. Can we assume this is the Toprawa battle we're seeing?

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