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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 30, 2007 5:02 PM
in response to: Jeff Ferguson
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Which is... odd, to say the least. But then again, I can see how this came to be, as events are described as being "one year after the Battle of Yavin". Thus, events six months after Yavin are o ABY, events six months before Yavin are 0 BBY. However, events one year after are 1 ABY, and events one year before are 1 BBY, so it all works out! Hey!
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 30, 2007 4:59 PM
in response to: Charliii
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Now this is a confusing argument.
Looking at Wookieepedia, it has 0 BBY and 0 ABY as different years --- however, the way they have it set up is like this:
The first year of your life, you are zero years old. The first minute of a soccer game is before the clock reaches one minute (hence a goal at 43:32 being in the 44th minute). The first year after Yavin is described as 0 ABY, because the baby has not yet reached one years old.
Acting in reverse, they do the same thing. 0 BBY is the year before Yavin, whereas events that happen exactly one year before Yavin are at 1 BBY.
This means that their dating system uses the Battle of Yavin as the centerpiece --- the New Year's Eve, if you will.
(cont'd)
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 29, 2007 12:56 PM
in response to: Master Ki-Aaron...
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Well, it's the same way in our own world, right? 0 B.C. and 0 A.D. can be used interchangeably.
But then again, there isn't any "year 0" in our calendar. There is 1 B.C. (in which Jesus is supposed to have been born) directly followed by 1 A.D.
The NEC used both 0 BBY and 0 ABY implicitly in cases such as "3-0 BBY", which I simply interpret as another way of saying "about three years before and up to around the Battle of Yavin".
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 29, 2007 12:10 PM
in response to: Leland Y Chee
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There really doesn't seem to be any decision on whether 0 ABY or 0 BBY is considered correct
Well, it's the same way in our own world, right? 0 B.C. and 0 A.D. can be used interchangeably.
Except that's not how either Essential Chronology uses it. They all count, in both directions, from the Battle of Yavin itself, giving two year zeroes
Now, I interpreted that differently. I figured it would be like (real-world example) if we accept that there's one Year Zero, but events that year prior to Christ's birth are considered 0 B.C. and events that year after Christ's birth are considered 0 A.D. (Also, notice that the tool of creating the Year Zero--Christ's birth--is not considered the new year.)
So, all that said, I guess what we've got is that we need a definitive answer from Mr. Chee.
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 29, 2007 12:07 PM
in response to: JMMC
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Except that's not how either Essential Chronology uses it. They all count, in both directions, from the Battle of Yavin itself, giving two year zeroes.
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 29, 2007 8:48 AM
in response to: JMMC
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While technically, the meaning of 1 ABY should be the same date in the next year (36:5:8) it isn't really used that way. 0 ABY has come to mean, in many cases, "the year during which the Battle of Yavin took place". When you see a list of events said to take place "1 ABY", it does not mean all the events happened on the exact same date, one year after the battle. As far as LFL is concerned, they keep it vague. If they want to get more exact, they count by months. When they gave us a Clone Wars timeline, they counted by months: 11 months after the Battle of Geonosis, for example. Holonet News gave us specific dates for two of the prequels, but unless it's actually important that we know an exact date for the other stories, everything's kept vague.
So, after all that babbling, I guess my main point was, don't worry about the details too much. There really doesn't seem to be any decision on whether 0 ABY or 0 BBY is considered correct.
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 29, 2007 8:47 AM
in response to: Leland Y Chee
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The question about the dates. First, there is only one "year zero". 0 ABY means the exact same thing as 0 BBY.
The ABY and BBY dating is not meant to be exact. If we're talking about specific months and days, the Holonet news gave some events exact dates. The Battle of Yavin actually took place on 35:3:5 (or whatever). The 35 is the in-universe designation of that year. 3 is a month, 5 is a day. (more)
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 26, 2007 2:10 PM
in response to: Darth NTM
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I don't know where people get this "two six month year" business froms. (The years would have to be this length because the GrS dates don't allow for two full years there).
Me neither, but apparently there are all sorts of theories going around, so I'd like to have an official answer.
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 26, 2007 2:04 PM
in response to: Charliii
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Personally, Charllii, I can't see how there can be two years: 1 BBY means exactly that - 1 year before the battle of yavin. Just like 1 ABY means "1 year after the battle of yavin", therefore, there's only one year between them, the year OF the battle of yavin.
I don't know where people get this "two six month year" business froms. (The years would have to be this length because the GrS dates don't allow for two full years there).
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 26, 2007 1:40 PM
in response to: Charliii
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Hey, Tasty, I was wondering, is the Star Wars Tales story "The Apprentice" and the characters within it considered canonical? Are Darth Finn and Marka considered Rule of Two sith? Thanks  |
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 26, 2007 10:14 AM
in response to: Leland Y Chee
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Tasty, could you (or somebody else who knows) please explain how the ABY/BBY calendar works around the Battle of Yavin. Are there two year zero (0 BBY, 0 ABY) or are these the same year and in that case, what is it called?
And in any case, when does the year(s) start? Does the Battle of Yavin take place on New Years Eve in the BBY/ABY calendar, or is the dates retained from the previous (Great ReSyncronization) calendar?
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 16, 2007 5:39 AM
in response to: DarthMRN
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I'd say a much bigger argument for not canonizing Team Gizka's work is because they work on the basis of an assumption of what the final content was supposed to be, which may lead them to include content that was supposed to be cut, or which will upset the current state of canon. I can only imagine what steps have been taken to rectify the troubles caused by K2 since it was released, steps which would be rendered obsolete, or cause inconsistencies, if the cut content was to be released after all.
But that is assuming Team Gizka have interpreted it wrong, and that steps taken to rectify the K2 troubles in any way collide with the cut content. If neither of those are true, I'd say there is no reason why there shouldn't be a chance, albeit a little one, that it might be canonized.
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 16, 2007 5:38 AM
in response to: Darth NTM
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The difference between those examples and the cut content, is that the examles are of things that were cut because the creator wanted to, while the K2 content got cut because of shortage of time, not some creative desicion.
You can't much compare something the ones with authority wanted to have in the final version, but couldn't due to real-world constraints, with something they cut because they made a creative call to.
Heh. Reminds me of the OT Special and DVD editions. GL puts his real vision on film, after being constrained by real-world limitations for 20 years. IMO that sets a strong precendent.
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 15, 2007 4:55 PM
in response to: DarthMRN
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If its in a licensed source, sure, its canon.
Fan mods aren't licensed.
To put it another way, Team Gizka's product, while very nice and a great effort by fans, doesn't canonise deleted material anymore than say:
A) A Fan made film that recuts Attack of the Clones with all the deleted scenes is canon
or
B) If I get all the things Abel Pena cut out of his published Star Wars writing, and reintegrate it and then publish it on my website.
The quickest, easiest way for deleted material to be canonised is for them to be referenced, either on the official site, or in a sourcebook or future novel. |
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 15, 2007 1:55 PM
in response to: Darth NTM
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Considering how something you put out has been canonized, what makes you so sure?
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 14, 2007 7:12 PM
in response to: DarthMRN
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There is 0% chance that anything Team Gizka puts out is canon.
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 14, 2007 9:56 AM
in response to: True_Avery
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I'd be very surprised if Obsidian or LA had the guts to shut down a group of fans who are cleaning up their mess -without any Xmas cash to show for it.
I think I even remember the official KotOR 2 forum having a message from the devs where they made it clear that the mod wasn't officially sanctioned, but basically encouraged people to go check it out anyway.
Heh. I'm sure the reason why there haven't been any more official patches for the game, is because the devs knows Team Gizka is on the job anyway.
But the canon issue is funny. Since Team Gizka are going to great lengths to restore what would otherwise have been canon, I think we have a strange case here of stuff that should be canon, but most likely will not be, on the sole basis of it being brought to the public by fans.
Tell me, Tasty, if the K2 developers are so impressed with the mod that they ask you to include it in canon, and it otherwise checks out (LFL testing and whatnot), would it be possible?
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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted:
Jun 14, 2007 2:36 AM
in response to: Leland Y Chee
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I know this is not holocron but...
I am a fond fan of Knight of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. Currently a mod is being made called the Sith Lords Restoration Project http://www.team-gizka.org/ .This mod is taking cut content from the Xbox version of the game and importing it onto PC, scripting and editing being done to restore the cut content back into the game to be played via patch soon in the future. Before I get my hopes up, I would like to know if this is illegal or not and if Lucas Arts/Obsidian will be shutting down this mod in the near future for possibly breaking the Terms of Service and Copyright Laws.
If it is legal, will the new content be considered Canon with the game's lore, or simply player created lore? |
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