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Thread: Holocron continuity database questions



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super_renegadeg...

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Registered: 10/30/07
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Jan 3, 2010 7:54 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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I have a question about the latest Darth Bane novel.

SPOILER WARNING

After Bane is killed, his spirit seeems to be destroyed, as confirmed on Drew Karpyshyn's blog. How come a Legacy-era comic shows Bane's spirit criticizing Darth Krayt if Bane's spirit was destroyed as he tried to possess Zannah?
Le Passant


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Registered: 01/20/06
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Jan 2, 2010 2:33 PM   in response to: darthmilo77 in response to: darthmilo77
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It seems that there is individuals, on internet, whose don't understand this "new potential mistake" as us.

If the other jedi from the episode have their name, but Sora and the Nikto have "...", it's perhaps because they were just the model. I hope. I hope.

By the way, they can use existent characters for their stories. Why can't they bring back some old characters, like Empatojayos Brand, Qu Rahn, Maw, Ranik Solusar, Corran Horn's father, etc.
So simple. So good for the EU fans.
darthmilo77


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Registered: 12/12/06
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Jan 2, 2010 2:27 PM   in response to: Le Passant in response to: Le Passant
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Yes, hopefully it's just a case of using the same template, like they did when they identified Rodians as Greedo or "Greedo-type" in things like the script for The Phantom Menace or packaging for Jedi Knight, when they obviously weren't Greedo himself (except ambiguously in the case of Greedo the Elder). After all, Sora Bulq is probably the best-known Weequay Jedi, like Greedo is probably the best-known Rodian, so it makes sense that they might internally name a character after the most popular similar character. But really, can't they just make like two episodes in a row that don't screw something up for non-existent story purposes?
Le Passant


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Registered: 01/20/06
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Jan 2, 2010 2:13 PM   in response to: darthmilo77 in response to: darthmilo77
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What's killing me is that they KNOW Sora Bulq as a Separatist. They even precise that, if Sora survived, Eeth can do so. So they know the background. They even made Adi Gallia, a friend of Eeth Koth. They knew their sources.

So, WHY even THINK about making him in TCW as a Jedi in the Republic ?

I hope that they just modelized a character based on Sora's appearance, and NOT in the idea to actually make him Sora.
After all, Rex was, at the start, intended to be Alpha from the comics. So, PLEASE, creative team, make an effort : it's not Sora Bulq.

edit : yes, someone on the Wookie already deleted the mention that Sora is not named in the episode. This piece was erased :
The ''[Clone Wars]'' episode ''[Grievous Intrigue]'' features a Weequay Jedi as a background character. While design documents list the Weequay as Sora Bulq, it remains to be seen if this is a canonical appearance.
darthmilo77


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Jan 2, 2010 1:18 PM   in response to: Darrth Morrt in response to: Darrth Morrt
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The Episode Guides for episodes of the show seem downright hostile to the EU at times. The one for Grievous Intrigue says "The expanded universe attempted to kill off Eeth Koth in 2003's Inside the World of Attack of the Clones, claiming he died in a gunship crash on Geonosis that also took the life of Sora Bulq -- another Jedi character who emerged intact in a subsequent source." As if the EU was somehow "out to get" various characters as it fought against the "true canon". I honestly can't tell if they really are making an effort to separate sources, when it's all canon, or to specify the source for the casual fans. Of course, sometimes they consider the very appearance of the Republic logo to be "trivia," so maybe they're just trying really hard to find things to put in that section.
Darrth Morrt

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Registered: 02/17/06
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 30, 2009 6:34 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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I have a question about holocrons.
Vodo's and Bodo Baas's Holocron are the same, called Tedryn Holocron.
In Dark Empire II, Luke met Ood Bnar and he told he know Bnar from the Holocron. By that time, there were only 3 known holocron in EU: Bodo Baas's from DE, Arca's from TOTJ and Vodo's from an other TOTJ. At the last pages of the Empire's End comic in the letters section, there is a question about the holocron. The answer of an editor refered to Anderson and said that Bnar is a gatekeeper of Baas's holocron.

That's why I think Bnar's (aka Arca's) holocron and Tedryn Holocron are the same. There is only one problem with this teory: TEGTAS said at the Arcanian section, that Tionne and an archeologist team found Arca's Holocron. But this could be an other of Arca.

What do you think? Are Tedryn Holocron and the one seen in the TOTJ:Saga of Nomi the same?
ulic_g99


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 30, 2009 5:54 AM   in response to: ulic_g99 in response to: ulic_g99
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I noticed that Dave Filoni also referred to George's stuff in a recent interview as "canon" and everything else as "EU".

The databank updaters may feel this is an easier designation than the slightly more wordy "From the Films and The Clone Wars" and covers them better since they've no guarantee that any piece of EU information they enter relating to the Clone Wars may still be canonical at all by the time they've entered it, what with the constant possibility of revision from TCW.
ulic_g99


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 30, 2009 5:51 AM   in response to: Jeff Ferguson in response to: Jeff Ferguson
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Regarding the Canon vs EU thing in the databank, it looks a lot like they might be returning to terminology similar to that used by Steve Sansweet in the preface to the 1998 Star Wars Encyclopaedia:
+
"Which brings us to the often-asked question: Just what is Star Wars canon, and what is not? The one sure answer: The Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition -- the three films themselves as executive-produced, and in the case of Star Wars written and directed, by George Lucas, are canon. Coming in a close second we have the authorised adaptations of the three films: the novels, radio dramas, and comics. After that, almost everything falls into a category of "quasi-canon." "+
Jeff Ferguson

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 30, 2009 5:11 AM   in response to: Leland Y Chee in response to: Leland Y Chee
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lukevanhorn --- Eeth Koth's databank entry is weird; the "from the expanded universe" section is written half in-universe, half out-of-universe. I don't think it's supposed to be a definitive statement on canon.

However --- Leland, I do have a different question about Koth's databank entry --- it states that his likeness was used in Genndy's Clone Wars cartoon a few years back. Does that mean that the Zabrak seen on the Jedi Council in Chapters 21 and 22 is now Eeth Koth, even though it was previously established to be Agen Kolar?

... Or can we take that statement to simply mean that his "likeness" was used, which is nothing new, as, despite being Kolar, the character innacurately resembled Eeth Koth?
darthmilo77


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Registered: 12/12/06
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 29, 2009 8:59 PM   in response to: Arawn_Fenn in response to: Arawn_Fenn
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The lettered canon "ranks" are for internal purposes in the event of a conflict to provide a default "correct" source until an individual decision is made. While T-canon is on a higher level than the EU, it doesn't mean that the shows and films are the only canon Star Wars works.
Arawn_Fenn


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Registered: 05/09/09
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 29, 2009 7:55 PM   in response to: darthmilo77 in response to: darthmilo77
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I thought T-canon was always supposed to be seen like that.
darthmilo77


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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 29, 2009 1:36 PM   in response to: lukevanhorn in response to: lukevanhorn
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Wow, that's...unfortunate. It had always separated "From the Movies" and "From the EU" for some characters (for some it was all together, as with Anakin Skywalker) but not like that. Then again, the Databank as a whole tends to categorize things inconsistently, so it could just be an attempt to avoid the awkwardness of saying "From the Movies and The Clone Wars TV Show." Let's just hope it's not a conscious effort by Licensing to fully separate Star Wars into two or even three separate entities.
lukevanhorn


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Registered: 05/21/07
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 29, 2009 10:13 AM   in response to: ulic_g99 in response to: ulic_g99
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Is supposed to indicate a new approach to the overall continuity, since G and T-Canon are simply labeled "Canon" and C-Canon is simply "the Expanded Universe"?
ulic_g99


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Registered: 02/21/05
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 28, 2009 4:43 PM   in response to: lukevanhorn in response to: lukevanhorn
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Ah - perfect! Thank you for providing that lukevanhorn, there's our example!
lukevanhorn


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Registered: 05/21/07
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 28, 2009 4:41 PM   in response to: ulic_g99 in response to: ulic_g99
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Example: the date for the end of the Clone Wars in Traviss's Order 66 conflicted with all of the older sources, but when the Essential Atlas was being written, Leland decided that the authors should stick to the older date.
ulic_g99


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Registered: 02/21/05
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 28, 2009 4:23 PM   in response to: darthmilo77 in response to: darthmilo77
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Out of curiousity, do we actually know of any concrete examples where a newer source is overriden by an older one? The closest I can think of is when they put Vaapad (which every other source in existence had as being created by Mace Windu) 1,000 years too early in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction by mistake when they meant really meant Juyo, but I'm not sure if that really counts.
darthmilo77


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Registered: 12/12/06
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 28, 2009 9:52 AM   in response to: ulic_g99 in response to: ulic_g99
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Right, officially, it's case-by-case, but since it's a rare day when we're informed what the outcome of a given case is, you're usually safe assuming the newer source is correct, even if it doesn't appear to be a deliberate retcon, especially if the older source was created pre-Holocron.
ulic_g99


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Registered: 02/21/05
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 28, 2009 7:29 AM   in response to: Mith_the_Godling in response to: Mith_the_Godling
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Officially, I don't believe so - unless otherwise stated, all new EU sources are the same level, C-canon, and carry the same weight.

Unofficially, it generally tends to be the newer source that is correct, although as Pip50 says, all contradictions are dealt with on a case by case basis, so it is sometimes possible that an older source overrides a newer one (usually if there's an error in the new source).
Mith_the_Godling

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Registered: 03/19/08
Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 28, 2009 5:47 AM   in response to: darthmilo77 in response to: darthmilo77
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Are newer sources given higher canon status?
Pip50

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Re: Holocron continuity database questions
Posted: Dec 28, 2009 3:21 AM   in response to: darthmilo77 in response to: darthmilo77
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All contradictions are dealt with on a case by case basis.

Also, even if it mattered, the 2nd Ed. of the Star Wars Sourcebook and the 2nd Ed. of the Rebel Sourcebook both came out the same year, 1994.

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