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Thread: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...



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Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Feb 3, 2005 11:06 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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Tresk Im'nel:

Did anyone else notice that Grand Admiral Takel is wearing gloves in the header illustration for the SWI 66 article?

Hmm, I suppose he is. It looks like Thrawn is too in that illo, though.

Originally, Dan gave Declann black gloves and even a black cape to reflect his Dark Side leanings. This description was dropped from Declann's bio for the Insider revamp, but Joe still draped a cape over Declann's shoulders.

LOL! Good point. I just think the more Germanic pronunciation goes well with the spelling of his first name. I even go so far as to assume the "j" in Josef is pronounced as "y,"

I originally intended it to sound like "Joseph" but over the years have become partial to the "Yosef" pronunciation.

As someone used to having his name pronounced in two different forms on a regular basis ("A-bowl" and "Ah-bell"), I'm fairly comfortable with the ambiguity of Grunger's name. Folks can choose whichever they prefer.

Take care,
Abel
jSarek


Posts: 2,267
Registered: 12/17/03
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 7:22 PM   in response to: President_Sharky in response to: President_Sharky
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President_Sharky:

Is it not possible that the Battle of Taulus, in which the HIMS Aggressor was destroyed, took place a few months or weeks after Rogue Squadron, therefore allowing continuity to flow more easily.

Alas, no, it's not. Grant, the "last" Grand Admiral, was captured in 6 ABY; the loss of Aggressor would have had to have been before that. The mission to recapture of Coruscant began in 6.5 ABY.

Another possibility could be that the Star Destroyer was under Admiral Grunger's command, but he still did Isard a few favours every now and then? Didn't he declare himself "leader of the Empire?" After the Triculous affair, he may still have had some connections with Isard, and he agreed to retake Corellia from Grand Admiral Pitta.

Except Isard was trying to overtly recapture Grunger's territory at the time, and threatened to kill Takel because he failed to do so. That doesn't sound like a cooperative working relationship. ;-)
President_Sharky

Posts: 127
Registered: 02/27/04
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 4:59 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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Is it not possible that the Battle of Taulus, in which the HIMS Aggressor was destroyed, took place a few months or weeks after Rogue Squadron, therefore allowing continuity to flow more easily.

Another possibility could be that the Star Destroyer was under Admiral Grunger's command, but he still did Isard a few favours every now and then? Didn't he declare himself "leader of the Empire?" After the Triculous affair, he may still have had some connections with Isard, and he agreed to retake Corellia from Grand Admiral Pitta.
jSarek


Posts: 2,267
Registered: 12/17/03
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 3:27 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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The Aggressor, unfortunately, fell into a sort of blind spot between us. In our defense, I can only say that the Aggressor reference did not explicitly contradict any existing EU, only overlooked a correlation that would've made sense. The Aggressor mentioned in the X-wing novels was never specified as a Super Star Destroyer, and we have at the very least one example of SDs of different classes taking on the same name, as in the Victory SD and Super SD both named Iron Fist.

True. But until the Whelm was invented for Coruscant and the Core Worlds, there wasn't any other SSD that could play the role. This page by Kaelis summarizes some of the discussions we had at the time, though it retains some of the more . . . unnecessarily hotheaded . . . opinions of your skill that have had plenty of time to cool since then.
jSarek


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Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 3:25 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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As a fan myself, I can sympathize with this kind of frustration. As an author, I can now also sympathize with the difficulties of writing in a shared universe. Between Dan and myself, we have basically all aspects of the EU covered, and pound for pound tend to reconcile more continuity gaffs per product than arguably any other writer of Star Wars. That certainly doesn't justify anything, but hopefully puts things in perspective.

Oh, we (well, at least I) do have perspective, which is why I made sure to put the ". . . or not. ;)" in my post. You two HAVE done a tremendous job of reconciling continuity errors, to a higher degree than any other author I can think of (although Fry and Stackpole probably get honorable mentions, they're still well behind you two).
jSarek


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Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 3:22 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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With that kind of pull, it certainly might've been possible for him to be recognized as both a Grand Admiral and Grand Moff, at least informally. The Committee of Grand Moffs certainly saw it that way when they offered Tigellinus to join them.

That's probably the best explanation for Tigellinus's job not being filled. It's kinda kludgey, but it would also explain why someone as power-hungry as Tigellinus would be willing to take what essentially amounted to a demotion.

Cool, I hope you've been able to enjoy it!

I have. It's a really good article, covering a lot of ground.

That's TWO you owe me, J. ;) (And thanks for the compliment).

It's a deserved one. The work you've done, not only on the GA article but also on the Mandalorians and Emperor's Hands articles, has been marvelously integrative, something that I find immensely satisfying in a SW article. The fact that you covered two of my favorite topics (the GAs and the Hands) is icing on the cake.
jSarek


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Registered: 12/17/03
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 3:19 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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Teshik's execution was nothing necessarily just, just politics as usual . . . Tragically, Teshik was perhaps the least "evil" of the GAs. Life's tough. ]:)

Indeed. I think you managed to craft a genuinely tragic tale with Teshik in 4 paragraphs, which is an impressive feat.

Dan and I had a sequel of sorts to the GAs planned for Polyhedron, when it unexpectedly dropped its SW content. But like the GAs piece, originally penned for Gamer, we may resurrect it.

Cool. Though it would've been handy to have some RPG stats flying around, even if it meant I had to back-convert them to D6 . . .

I had intended for Grand Admiral Josef Grunger to be an Alderaanian Marine at a point earlier in his career. This was ultimately cut from the GAs article, though his Alderaanian heritage made it into a Fact Files card, I believe.

Interesting. Fact Files made cards of the Grand Admirals? Do you (or anyone else reading this, for that matter) know anything more about this?
jSarek


Posts: 2,267
Registered: 12/17/03
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 3:14 PM   in response to: Halagad in response to: Halagad
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Halagad:

  • Hey folks! Thank you for the warm reception. :)*

Well, when one of the main architects of Official material on the Grand Admirals comes to visit The Other Imperial Grand Admirals thread, you can bet we'd be excited. ;-)

It was our intention that the Insider article be all encompassing concerning the original GAs, and thus it's our opinion that no GA was appointed to fill Tigellinus' position after he became a Grand Moff. I believe Dan intends to take an official stance on this in an upcoming project.

I figured as much. Still, it's a tad odd that Palpatine filled Zaarin's hole so quickly, but never filled the hole Tigellinus left.

therefore Dan and I thought it was only fair to allow the inventor of the Grand Admirals tell the tale of Makati taking the Final Jump if he so chose.

Cool. Now I know what to tell people when they ask me this. ;-) It's also helps avoid contradictions, as Zahn has the clout to bend continuity at times . . .
Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 1:15 PM   in response to: Halagad in response to: Halagad
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forcing him jump through more hoops...

As a fan myself, I can sympathize with this kind of frustration. As an author, I can now also sympathize with the difficulties of writing in a shared universe. Between Dan and myself, we have basically all aspects of the EU covered, and pound for pound tend to reconcile more continuity gaffs per product than arguably any other writer of Star Wars. That certainly doesn't justify anything, but hopefully puts things in perspective.

The Aggressor, unfortunately, fell into a sort of blind spot between us. In our defense, I can only say that the Aggressor reference did not explicitly contradict any existing EU, only overlooked a correlation that would've made sense. The Aggressor mentioned in the X-wing novels was never specified as a Super Star Destroyer, and we have at the very least one example of SDs of different classes taking on the same name, as in the Victory SD and Super SD both named Iron Fist.

Take care,
Abel
Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 1:03 PM   in response to: Halagad in response to: Halagad
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jSarek:

Wow, two compliments from the co-author of the best Insider article ever written. I hope my head will fit through the door on the way out!

That's TWO you owe me, J. ;) (And thanks for the compliment).

but I do think it doesn't get the proper respect it deserves. I mean, if The Crystal Star and Planet of Twilight are part of continuity, there's no excuse for GoDV not to be.

That sums up my feeling on the matter. I understand people's dislike for certain products - I have my own biases. But when you're catering to an audience as diverse as Star Wars', I don't think it's really fair to discriminate.

Anyway, you might want to drop by the Asset Tracking thread and offer Kaelis a heartfelt apology for you and Wallace destroying the SSD Aggressor, forcing him jump through more hoops than you can shake a stick at trying to reconcile the continuity errors it caused.

Ooh...pulling out the big guns. :) I'm coming back to this one.
Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 30, 2005 12:49 PM   in response to: Silly Dan in response to: Silly Dan
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Silly Dan:

Could he have held both positions simultaneously?

Hey Silly Dan. Tigellinus was beloved: intelligent, highly capable, a smooth talker, and young.the idealized Imperial. With that kind of pull, it certainly might've been possible for him to be recognized as both a Grand Admiral and Grand Moff, at least informally. The Committee of Grand Moffs certainly saw it that way when they offered Tigellinus to join them.

Tresk Im'nel:

*Gee, I feel bad about forgetting to tell Mr. Corroney what a good job I thought he did on SWI 66 at the time he posted here. *

I'll pass the word along Tresk. :)

jSarek:

I just got back from my local B&N today having learned that they STILL don't have #80 in yet; the cool gossip I've heard about this article has already sold me on the issue.

Cool, I hope you've been able to enjoy it!

Take care,
Abel

Silly Dan

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Registered: 01/27/00
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 29, 2005 8:57 PM   in response to: Halagad in response to: Halagad
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It was our intention that the Insider article be all
encompassing concerning the original GAs, and thus
it?s our opinion that no GA was appointed to fill
Tigellinus? position after he became a Grand Moff. I
believe Dan intends to take an official stance on
this in an upcoming project.

Could he have held both positions simultaneously?
Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 29, 2005 2:06 PM   in response to: Halagad in response to: Halagad
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Hey folks. I thought this post from another thread would interest you guys:

  • "Any plans for a reference on the Alderaan War Ships?"*

+I'm always on the look-out for opportunities to use seemingly contradictory references. I haven't had much success integrating the non-pacifist Alderaan references from earlier sources, though. For instance, I had intended for Grand Admiral Josef Grunger to be an Alderaanian Marine at a point earlier in his career. This was ultimately cut from the GAs article, though his Alderaanian heritage made it into a Fact Files card, I believe.

Take care,
Abel+
Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 26, 2005 2:46 PM   in response to: Tresk Im'nel in response to: Tresk Im'nel
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Nex:

has anyone else wondered exactly what Grand Admiral Teshik was executed for? SWI 66 describes him as "compassionate and confidant," which hardly sounds like a potential serious war criminal. And it's not as if the New Republic executed Imperials often, Bevel Lemelisk is the only other one I can think of...

Teshik's execution was nothing necessarily just, just politics as usual. Someone prominent had to take the fall for the atrocities committed by the Empire, but with Vader and Palp both already dead, only the GA in charge of the Core and that held off the Rebels for hours after the Death Star's destruction made a suitable showstopper. Tragically, Teshik was perhaps the least "evil" of the GAs. Life's tough. ]:)

Why not have a "Other Imperial Grand Admirals" Series??

Dan and I had a sequel of sorts to the GAs planned for Polyhedron, when it unexpectedly dropped its SW content. But like the GAs piece, originally penned for Gamer, we may resurrect it.
Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 26, 2005 2:18 PM   in response to: Tresk Im'nel in response to: Tresk Im'nel
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Hey folks! Thank you for the warm reception. :)

Nex:

Did the Emperor choose a new GA after Tigellinus switched over to a more political role, and dropped the Grand Admiral title?

It was our intention that the Insider article be all encompassing concerning the original GAs, and thus it's our opinion that no GA was appointed to fill Tigellinus' position after he became a Grand Moff. I believe Dan intends to take an official stance on this in an upcoming project.

Back to Grand Admirals, How did Makati die? In the Insider it only says he "met his end."

Dan and I have been called out on this repeatedly. Makati's fate was intentionally left ambiguous. Makati was the only other GA besides Thrawn that Tim Zahn had referenced himself, and therefore Dan and I thought it was only fair to allow the inventor of the Grand Admirals tell the tale of Makati taking the Final Jump if he so chose.

Take care,
Abel
jSarek


Posts: 2,267
Registered: 12/17/03
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 25, 2005 1:30 PM   in response to: jSarek in response to: jSarek
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Ah.the first Star Wars rpg product I ever bought. Spare Parts was the only story, up until that point, that was kind of story I'd been craving as a fan a long time fan.

Also contains Command Decision, I think THE best SW short story I've ever read.

You just might get your wish, Nex. ;) I was going to finish off Grant in the Mandalorian piece to tie up that loose end, but after talking with Dan Wallace, he came up with a a very cool idea for the Last Grand Admiral's last stand. Hopefully we'll see that some time soon.

Cool. Glad to know you're still thinking about the GAs for the future! :-)

Oh, and by the way, in regards to a question you asked on tf.n (which I only lurk, since I haven't registered there), it's a reference to the Bimm Bard template's character quote. ;-)
jSarek


Posts: 2,267
Registered: 12/17/03
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 25, 2005 1:29 PM   in response to: Halagad in response to: Halagad
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Halagad:

It's nothing too exciting, but a GA (Takel) does get a quick reference in the Mandalorian article.

Yep. That leads me to my next question, since I don't have the Marvel comics - when did Dala die? It had to be before Endor, because Grunger had staged his coup in the Mandalore sector by then.

I agree Tresk. Dan did a great job of coming up with a unique background for Declann.

So did you guys divide up the Grand Admirals and each of you did six, or was it just happenstance that Dan did most of the work on this one?

Indeed. In an issue of Dark Horse's Empire series, perhaps? B-)

Probably our best chance; I don't think the novels are going to be swinging in the direction of the Rebellion or early NR anytime soon.
Nex: The T is H...


Posts: 12,063
Registered: 12/12/03
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 23, 2005 5:06 PM   in response to: Halagad in response to: Halagad
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You just might get your wish, Nex. I was going to finish off Grant in the Mandalorian piece to tie up that loose end, but after talking with Dan Wallace, he came up with a a very cool idea for the Last Grand Admiral's last stand. Hopefully we'll see that some time soon.

Excellent. :D

And it's wonderful to have you on the boards Abel!
Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 23, 2005 1:31 PM   in response to: Tresk Im'nel in response to: Tresk Im'nel
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Tresk Im'nel:

*I chanced upon a copy of SWAJ 1 Vol. 11: the one with Command Decision! And Spare Parts by Pablo Hidalgo, but that's off-topic. It was the only SWAJ he had left lying around. Quite a lucky find, IMO. *

Ah.the first Star Wars rpg product I ever bought. Spare Parts was the only story, up until that point, that was kind of story I'd been craving as a fan a long time fan.

Nex:

I'd like to see (ex)Grand Admiral Grant show up with the Galactic Alliance. He left Imperial service and retired. According to Insider, he would have like to have squared off against Thrawn, but the NR never contacted him. He's (presumably) still alive, so I'd like to see him.

You just might get your wish, Nex. ;) I was going to finish off Grant in the Mandalorian piece to tie up that loose end, but after talking with Dan Wallace, he came up with a a very cool idea for the Last Grand Admiral's last stand. Hopefully we'll see that some time soon.

Take care,
Abel
Halagad


Posts: 349
Registered: 12/20/99
Re: The other Imperial Grand Admirals...
Posted: Jan 23, 2005 1:19 PM   in response to: Tresk Im'nel in response to: Tresk Im'nel
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Hey folks! Here are some more answere to questions:

Tresk Im'nel

*Perhaps, but personally I'm most interested in further details on Declann or Teshik... *

It's nothing too exciting, but a GA (Takel) does get a quick reference in the Mandalorian article.

Yes, his only appearance to date is SWI 66. Prior to that article there was a "missing" Grand Admiral. I think they did a very good job in that article of coming up with memorable concepts. A Force-wielding Grand Admiral has a lot of development potential, IMO.

I agree Tresk. Dan did a great job of coming up with a unique background for Declann.

*Why just have your cake? Eat it, too! Let's have further details on ALL of them! *

Indeed. In an issue of Dark Horse's Empire series, perhaps? B-)

Take care,
Abel

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