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Thread: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs


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Mira Lodo


Posts: 2,100
Registered: 10/18/01
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 12, 2008 3:45 PM   in response to: DarthMRN in response to: DarthMRN
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  • Whenever I hear people complain about Luke falling,
it is always from people who hasn't read the comics,
just assuming it doesn't make sense. I'm surprised to
hear the same from those who actually have read
them.*

You shouldn't be. DE was one of the most polarizing stories of the EU, and many felt that it started off the whole thing on the wrong foot.
DarthMRN


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Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 12, 2008 2:16 PM   in response to: Dark Spork in response to: Dark Spork
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Whenever I hear people complain about Luke falling, it is always from people who hasn't read the comics, just assuming it doesn't make sense. I'm surprised to hear the same from those who actually have read them.

Unlike earlier encounters with Palp, Luke now realized he faced a foe that would just keep on coming no matter how many times they killed him. That puts things into perspective. Why a decision to infiltrate the enemy in order to learn how to defeat them, all the while curtailing their operations from the inside doesn't make sense is beyond me.

It's not like he joined the old man for real. And in spite of Leia's insistence that Luke was wrong, she failed to come up with any alternative herself. Luke made a heroic sacrifice, one uncharacteristic for a Jedi, and definetly perilous darkside-wise, but did it make sense? Even with Luke knowing the dangers of the dark side? Hell yes!
Dark Spork


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Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 12, 2008 9:07 AM   in response to: James T. Skywal... in response to: James T. Skywal...
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I was reading the JAT way back in the day, and no idea what the reborn Emperor thing was, let alone that it was a comic. And once I figured that out, I had no idea where to even get such a thing. I actually ended up shelling out $30 for the DE Sourcebook from WEG! (Hey, I was like 15.) You have to recall that in the 90's bookstores were not carrying trade collections... At least not the dinky mall bookstores, which was all we had in my corner of suburbia at the time. And I had a comic store, but it closed due to the Marvel distribution brouhaha. (That might have been right after I found out about the comic... Or it might not. To be honest I have no memory of where or how I found the actual DE.) I was pretty ignorant back then, and I don't think we had the internet yet so I was on my own.

As for the comic itself, I wish Infinities had been an option back in the day... I like Dark Luke stories, but that one... Meh. It wasn't worth half the trouble.
TheSithEmpire


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Registered: 01/01/00
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 11, 2008 8:04 PM   in response to: hootieblah in response to: hootieblah
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Good points.

Any older character, be it from a book, comic, etc., is going to need to be introduced so that new fans know who this person is. Even a brand new character will require some back-story. In the case of Lumiya, the authors did a great job bringing new readers up to speed.

In the case of DE's reference in the JA trilogy, Anderson didn't go that route. He just threw the reference in, which was either frustrating or intriguing. Those intrigued sought out the source, and in many cases became comic-book readers! The others, I imagined, just stewed in their frustration.

But back-story is like that. Lord of the Rings is awash in references that weren't revealed in full until The Silmarillion. I think it adds verisimilitude, a lived-in universe with a long history. Whether it's Brian Daley making up some ancient event or KJA referencing a recent event, I think it helps the galaxy feel like a real place.
hootieblah


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Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 11, 2008 5:54 PM   in response to: Mira Lodo in response to: Mira Lodo
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Sue,

Are you guys ever going to go back to putting the "Star Wars Novels Timeline" back in the fronts of the books?

Personally, it was a very useful bit of information.

As always, thanks again for all your time:)
Mira Lodo


Posts: 2,100
Registered: 10/18/01
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 10, 2008 8:47 PM   in response to: Mira Lodo in response to: Mira Lodo
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  • As regards Lumiya, seeing her again (and in a novel)
was one of the greatest rewards that LFL could've
given this old SW fan!*

I didn't mind her return. I just would have preferred it in the comics. And written by Jo Duffy. :)

Long and short, I think it makes much more sense for the comics and novels to interlock than to overlap, continuity-wise. The latter has caused a number of problems in the restructuring of the Clone Wars material that might not have been necessary otherwise. And a fair amount of confusion among elitists and preferentialists alike. ;)
Mira Lodo


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Registered: 10/18/01
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 10, 2008 8:44 PM   in response to: Mira Lodo in response to: Mira Lodo
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Then there might be simple preference. Or finances. Face it, following the entire continuity is an expensive venture, and comics are even more expensive than novels, due to the higher quality of paper, etc. There could be any number of reasons that don't equate to elitism.

I think that even with the decision to make the comics and the novels a single continuity (which is very cool and admirable), there should have been a greater effort to maintain internal consistency within the media without the need to "cross over." Readers of comics should be able to pick up a book and think, "Wow, this really fits with what I've read," and vice versa, but no one should have to pick up a story and think "Huh? This makes no sense given what we know."

(continued...)
Mira Lodo


Posts: 2,100
Registered: 10/18/01
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 10, 2008 8:41 PM   in response to: TheSithEmpire in response to: TheSithEmpire
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  • I don't think rewarding such narrow-minded elitism is
the answer.*

I wouldn't go straight to elitism. Some find the writing of the comics inferior (which need not be snobbery any more than a preference for Zahn or Anderson, Traviss or Stewart would be), or not care for the style of storytelling, and others may simply find them harder to follow. I fall into the latter category. Many of the comics (TOTJ comes to mind) have such complicated images with few to no focal points that they seem like a mass of color. (One reason I would kill for b&w reprints of the lot of them.)

(continued...)
Sluis Van Shipy...


Posts: 263
Registered: 12/01/01
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 10, 2008 7:55 PM   in response to: TheSithEmpire in response to: TheSithEmpire
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*The problem with novel readers being confused with
the events of DE was that they didn't read comics,
either because they hadn't gotten around to them yet
fair enough) or because they were elitist and
thought that comics were beneath them, the realm of
children's fare. *

I read DE way back when those events started being referenced in the books. I think that the whole DE story should be buried with the "Glove of Darth Vader" series of books as far as continuity. It's just totally implausible. Luke stands up to the Emperor in ROTJ and didn't fall, yet he just changes his mind later? C'mon. Same thing with Legacy. The original Jedi Order survived for 1,000 generations, but Luke's Jedi only survive for 100?
S1th'ari


Posts: 5,722
Registered: 09/06/08
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 10, 2008 7:26 PM   in response to: TheSithEmpire in response to: TheSithEmpire
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I didn't start reading the comics until long after I started the novels. I guess I didn't know that the comic story lines had any effect on the novel continuity. But once I realized, I hopped right on them. I didn't even get DE until last year.

I try to watch the animated series whenever possible, but I don't get full cable at my place, so I'm limited to watching it on lunch break at work or somewhere else.
TheSithEmpire


Posts: 325
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Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 10, 2008 5:05 PM   in response to: Mira Lodo in response to: Mira Lodo
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The problem with novel readers being confused with the events of DE was that they didn't read comics, either because they hadn't gotten around to them yet (fair enough) or because they were elitist and thought that comics were beneath them, the realm of children's fare. No doubt many of these same people aren't watching the animated series for similar reasons.

I don't think rewarding such narrow-minded elitism is the answer.

As regards Lumiya, seeing her again (and in a novel) was one of the greatest rewards that LFL could've given this old SW fan!
Mira Lodo


Posts: 2,100
Registered: 10/18/01
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 10, 2008 4:54 PM   in response to: S1th'ari in response to: S1th'ari
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I really think they're on the right track using comic characters in the comics and novel characters in the novels. Things really got messy when they didn't cross over effectively. Remember the confusion the inclusion of DE caused novel readers (and continues to cause, to this day)? And don't get me started on Lumiya.
S1th'ari


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Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 11:24 PM   in response to: theredfoot35 in response to: theredfoot35
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I guess the point I was trying to get across is that this whole situation shouldn't be taken as seriously as everyone is making it out to be. Eventually, they'll come around. Ostrander and the rest brought them in for the sole purpose that none of the novel authors had any plans for them...so, to me, it would seem that there are no plans to use them in the foreseeable future.

But I agree, eventually they may bring them in to the NJO. I'm just not expecting them to.
theredfoot35

Posts: 1,522
Registered: 11/29/06
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 11:06 PM   in response to: James T. Skywal... in response to: James T. Skywal...
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But then wouldn't you think Luke would even say something even along the lines of hey I found a cool whipid jedi wandering around (insert planet here), his name is K'kruk. Since he is so old and wise and from the old order I decided to give him Octa's seat (or Tresina's) I mean they wouldn't even have to do anything, Just appear and debate in council. Be the "back when I was a whipper snapper with Yoda" master who can give them advice on course of action as it happened in the Old Republic. Most of the Jedi histories were destroyed, yet as we find out things via Prequel era movies and books, all of a sudden Luke knows some of that too. Wouldn't it be easier to have a known Old Order Jedi around to say those kinds of things?
The Broox


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Registered: 12/02/02
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 9:00 PM   in response to: Darth_Henning in response to: Darth_Henning
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*But, of course, that is not to say that the novel
authors won't use them, it's always possible -
they're just not really obligated to do so. Either
way, I wouldn't mind, I just wanted to know why they
chose K'kruhk and T'raa in the first place, and what
impact this would have on the novels... which would
appear to be none.*

Problem is if the novel authors don't use them
eventually, we hit a continuity wall when we near
Legacy. Those Jedi missing for 60 years is already a
stretch, but 160? Thats utterly impossible. Unless
they're going to suddenly change it so that star wars
now has two different EUs (comics and novels being
now separate), there has to be some cross-over
eventually, and I'm wondering if LFL is planning on
separating the two media into separate universes, or
is planning to bring them together more.


Just because they haven't been mentioned doesn't mean they are not already part of Luke's order. Things can happen "off screen" so to speak.
Darth_Henning


Posts: 5,005
Registered: 08/14/04
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 5:35 PM   in response to: S1th'ari in response to: S1th'ari
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But, of course, that is not to say that the novel authors won't use them, it's always possible - they're just not really obligated to do so. Either way, I wouldn't mind, I just wanted to know why they chose K'kruhk and T'raa in the first place, and what impact this would have on the novels... which would appear to be none.

Problem is if the novel authors don't use them eventually, we hit a continuity wall when we near Legacy. Those Jedi missing for 60 years is already a stretch, but 160? Thats utterly impossible. Unless they're going to suddenly change it so that star wars now has two different EUs (comics and novels being now separate), there has to be some cross-over eventually, and I'm wondering if LFL is planning on separating the two media into separate universes, or is planning to bring them together more.
Tresk Im'nel


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Registered: 09/26/03
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 3:57 PM   in response to: TheSithEmpire in response to: TheSithEmpire
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that's not Karen Miller's fault. She's a newcomer to the universe who's work should be weighed on its own merits.

Hear, hear.
TheSithEmpire


Posts: 325
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Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 9, 2008 11:43 AM   in response to: S1th'ari in response to: S1th'ari
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Nathan, let's just hope it's a mistake, ala +Street of Shadows+' dates and several others that have emerged in recent times.

If not, then it's a problem as there's no way all of the novels, novellas, short stories and comics can fit into a single month. Several months, yes. Now all Lucas said is that Anakin was knighted in the first year. By placing that knighting in the last month of the year (as I did on my timeline), everything that needs to fit before that event, fits just fine.

The cartoon series hardly needs those few extra months +and +they've chosen to keep dates ambiguous anyway. So the question until answered is 'Why is an EU source invalidating a host of other EU sources for no reason?'

And incidentally, that's not Karen Miller's fault. She's a newcomer to the universe who's work should be weighed on its own merits. Dates and continuity issues remain the domain of LFL.
S1th'ari


Posts: 5,722
Registered: 09/06/08
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 8, 2008 7:44 PM   in response to: Darth_Henning in response to: Darth_Henning
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The whole reason Legacy authors used them is because the novel authors did not, and do not have any plans for them. They didn't want to mess with the novels' timeline/continuity/plans, as Ostrander says, so they used 2 old Jedi that would otherwise have been overlooked by the NJO. Plus, he also says that Yoda or Luke would not have sensed them because they were not drawing on the Force or acting as Jedi.

But, of course, that is not to say that the novel authors won't use them, it's always possible - they're just not really obligated to do so. Either way, I wouldn't mind, I just wanted to know why they chose K'kruhk and T'raa in the first place, and what impact this would have on the novels... which would appear to be none.

I'm sure the novel authors know this. I just don't think it would happen (if it does at all) any time soon.
Darth_Henning


Posts: 5,005
Registered: 08/14/04
Re: Books, Comics, & Television VIPs
Posted: Dec 8, 2008 7:27 PM   in response to: S1th'ari in response to: S1th'ari
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*So I guess that clears up the confusion about K'Kruhk and T'ra Saa showing up in the novels... They were used in the Legacy comics explicitly because they were not used in the novels... if they had been, it would have severely limited the novel authors' ability to write them. Makes sense. *

Same problem though. They obviously join the order some time before Legacy, and so they have to appear in novels sooner or later. The question is do any of the novel authors know this or have plans for it eventually?

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